English question

[4Knights]

I don't know how else to ask this other than by just being frank! So please, no arrows

I'm trying to make some decisions on my oldest ds's 9th grade year for English. We use IEW for writing therefore I will be continuing along that format. But I get stumped over the almighty question..."Is this enough"??? I was looking at one program in particular that has the student writing 750 word essays after just a couple of weeks. And then that got me thinking. I'm not one of these that wants to do everything the easy way, but I wondering if this is all relative. Let me explain.

When I was deciding on his maths and sciences there's no question that he will take algebra 1 & 2, geometry and then calculus/trig. Then for science he will take biology, physical science, chemistry and physics. These are non-negotiables. That led me to wonder why? Well, we're math and science people. We love those subjects! So I'm wondering if it's "necessary" to take these "harder" English programs to get to college or if they were written by wonderful people that majored in English and will likely have children that love English. So just like we're drawn to more sciences and maths than required, I wonder if people that enjoy English/lit are drawn to harder programs.

Does that make sense? I'm assuming that neither are wrong....it just depends on where your bent is. But remember, I DO want my boys ready for college.

So what are your thoughts? (And hopefully I've not offended any English-lovers out there

Tiffani

[BevG]

The SAT now has a writing test that is 1/3 of your overall score. Last year, colleges may not have used it, but this year they did! There is a multiple choice section and an essay. So being able to write, especially under pressure in just a hour or so, is what the test requires. You are not told the prompt ahead of time.

Most scientific and math college majors will still require at least 1 year of English in college, including opinion/persuasive papers and literary analysis. In addition, science and math majors and careers require many a research paper!

So the answer is yes! Maybe not creative writing, but definitely the type of writing I just described, which I would classify as non-fiction or technical writing.

p.s. I have a computer science degree and worked in that field for 20+ years before coming home - and a son entering college this fall.

[Mandy in TN]

Originally Posted by 4Knights

I don't know how else to ask this other than by just being frank! So please, no arrows

I'm trying to make some decisions on my oldest ds's 9th grade year for English. We use IEW for writing therefore I will be continuing along that format. But I get stumped over the almighty question..."Is this enough"??? I was looking at one program in particular that has the student writing 750 word essays after just a couple of weeks. And then that got me thinking. I'm not one of these that wants to do everything the easy way, but I wondering if this is all relative. Let me explain.

When I was deciding on his maths and sciences there's no question that he will take algebra 1 & 2, geometry and then calculus/trig. Then for science he will take biology, physical science, chemistry and physics. These are non-negotiables. That led me to wonder why? Well, we're math and science people. We love those subjects! So I'm wondering if it's "necessary" to take these "harder" English programs to get to college or if they were written by wonderful people that majored in English and will likely have children that love English. So just like we're drawn to more sciences and maths than required, I wonder if people that enjoy English/lit are drawn to harder programs.

Does that make sense? I'm assuming that neither are wrong....it just depends on where your bent is. But remember, I DO want my boys ready for college.

So what are your thoughts?

IEW is a wonderful program. My oldest ds has used it exclusively in high school. He has taken 3 classes at the CC and all the classes but especially the 2 history classes required multiple papers. He never made below an A on a paper.

I hope that makes you more secure in your decision to use IEW which I believe was written by a man that loves English.

OTOH-
If you are a science lover I would suggest either doing physical science in 8th grade or doubling up at least one year so that your kiddos can either do AP or dual enrollment their senior year. And the same with math. Most children now do an advanced math or precalculus prior to calculus, so in order to get to calculus in high school algebra 1 needs to be taken in 8th grade.

HTH-
Mandy

[4Knights]

Hey Mandy,
We're doing Apologia's General Science this year (8th grade). I was listening to a podcast over the weekend from a high school counselor from HomeLife Academy and she's the one suggested we do Biology, Physical Science, Chemistry then Physics. So are you saying "dual enrollment" is taking a college class your jr or sr year for college credit?

(I'm going backwards, sorry)

Since you're familiar w/ IEW I can ask a more specific question. We've used IEW off and on for several years (never made it through all 9 units), but was thinking we'd go through some of the history-based books and maybe the Elegant Essay his jr or sr year. I guess it's having so many choices....I want to make sure I'm doing enough. I just finished the Teaching the Classics program and will implement it next year along w/ Fix-it. Do you think that will suffice?

Sorry so many other questions! Thanks for your time!

Tiffani

[Mandy in TN]

Originally Posted by 4Knights

Hey Mandy,
We're doing Apologia's General Science this year (8th grade). I was listening to a podcast over the weekend from a high school counselor from HomeLife Academy and she's the one suggested we do Biology, Physical Science, Chemistry then Physics. So are you saying "dual enrollment" is taking a college class your jr or sr year for college credit?

(I'm going backwards, sorry)

Since you're familiar w/ IEW I can ask a more specific question. We've used IEW off and on for several years (never made it through all 9 units), but was thinking we'd go through some of the history-based books and maybe the Elegant Essay his jr or sr year. I guess it's having so many choices....I want to make sure I'm doing enough. I just finished the Teaching the Classics program and will implement it next year along w/ Fix-it. Do you think that will suffice?

I have always heard that the typical sequence and think that Apologia suggests General Science, Physical Science, Biology, Chemistry, Physics. With Apologia beginning the sequence in 7th grade allows the student to either use Biology2, Chemistry2, or Physics2 his senior year or alternatively he could take a college science class.

My oldest did BJUP physical science in 8th grade, BJUP Biology in 9th, Apologia Marine Biology in 10th, and Spectrum Chemistry right now in 11th. Next year he will take science at the community college. He will not be taking physics. He may be interested in majoring in research biology. Our CC has an articulation agreement with the state university and it may make more sense to take a class that will meet his college graduation requirement and transfer than to take intro to physics.

My middle ds did Rainbow year 1 in 2006-2007 and Apologia Physical Science and Holt Biology in 2007-2008. This year he earned a 1/2 credit in oceanography using S&S and 5 units of Apologia Marine Biology, 1/2 credit in astronomy using S&S and extras, and he finished 1/2 of Conceptual Physics. He will finish the second half of Conceptual Physics next year alongside K'Nex Roller Coaster Physics. Next year he is also doing WP's Human Body and Forensics.

While we are doing at least one science each year, rather than the standard courses or rigor, we are going more interest led.

If you are interested in a rigorous science you may should look at BJUP. <shrug> HomeScienceTools and the ladies on the WTMboards seem to think that BJUP is a more rigorous program. Also, out of Apologia's Biology, Chemistry, and Physics programs, SWB has referred to their biology as the weak link in their program. Because Dr.Wile is a Chemistry/Physics guy, those texts are more engaging than the biology text. They hired someone else to write the Marine Biology siting that it was not his area of expertise. Perhaps they should have considered the same with the biology. I give you these opinions, because my personal opinion may not be applicable to you. I don't like Apologia, because I find the young earth approach in the texts prior to chemistry offensive. BJUP is young earth, but in addition to the text being more rigorous and more visually attractive the young earth dialogue is presented in a way that I do not find offensive.

Oldest ds used all 9 units of TWSS and Elegent Essay. We keep Writer's Inc around for reference. I liked Elegant Essay except for the section on transitions. Last year middle ds used Linda Thornhill's HistoryMakers IEW Supplement.

HTH-
Mandy

[4Knights]

This is very interesting! Thanks for the info.

I think we'll keep plugging away with IEW and then do Elegant Essays in a few years. Have you used Teaching the Classics?

One more question on science. We will start S&S in August. Would Apologia's Marine Biology be too hard for a 9th grader who's only completed General Science?

Thanks!

[Mandy in TN]

Originally Posted by 4Knights

Have you used Teaching the Classics?

One more question on science. We will start S&S in August. Would Apologia's Marine Biology be too hard for a 9th grader who's only completed General Science?

We have not used Teaching the Classics.

Apologia's Marine Biology would certainly be easier if he had Biology first, but it wouldn't be impossible. She does a good job at having a little review info prior to going deeper. Of course, both my boys had taken biology first, so maybe I would feel differently if they had not. Doesn't Apologia have a sample chapter online?

HTH-
Mandy

[lilly3]

ok - i"m the one with the English/writing bent you were referring to in your orig. post, I'm not offended because speaking backwards (bent-wise) I wish I could love chem and physics - in fact I'm having my kids do Real Science for Kids (so they can embrace these topics at a younger age and it can seep into their cores, maybe giving them an advantage that I didn't have in high school) (and more importantly so I'm not passing on "my" bent and pre-determining their bents) anyway... my point is on the writing - yes it's still so important for the math/science kid to embrace upper-level, advanced writing skills, becuase they will need them throughout college. I just had to "help" my science/math bent hubby through his most recent degree program by re-teaching him how to write, and I realized his earlier bad grades in college (the 1st time around) were not due to bad test grades or being young and lazy - he couldn't write a paper to save his soul. Yes, I homeschooled my hub in writing and he just graduated with a 3.9! He is the science/math bent, but it really effected him, in both his engineering and management programs when he couldn't write. (and just to prove I'm not on an english-is-important- podium because I'm a certified English teacher - I will say this - it's not fair!!!- us englishy people can choose majors and get away with hiding from physics, chem and their related math - but mathy/sciencers can NOT get away with hiding from writing - it's required. anyway... my advice is to stick with the heavy-duty writing work, it will pay dividends to anyone on their way to college!

[4Knights]

Love your input! Thank you so much!! Great advice!